1
00:00:05,510 --> 00:00:03,669
you're right hear it

2
00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:05,520
you're it quincy's any quizzes you're

3
00:00:09,430 --> 00:00:07,120
with these noisy quizzes no starzis you

4
00:00:11,190 --> 00:00:09,440
can't do that can two cannot stand it

5
00:00:11,509 --> 00:00:11,200
can't you double stamp that noah races

6
00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:11,519
can

7
00:00:20,470 --> 00:00:16,960
not triple stamped it no erasies

8
00:00:21,750 --> 00:00:20,480
know all about not being too serious

9
00:00:24,230 --> 00:00:21,760
that of course a clip from dumb and

10
00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:24,240
dumber today's guest

11
00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:26,880
is awesome he's taking the idea of not

12
00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:28,080
being serious

13
00:00:32,549 --> 00:00:31,039
and not thinking too much and brought it

14
00:00:37,350 --> 00:00:32,559
to

15
00:00:38,709 --> 00:00:37,360
next level spirituality

16
00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:38,719
and that's the truth i'm a mystic and i

17
00:00:41,830 --> 00:00:40,480
believe in nothing because when you have

18
00:00:42,310 --> 00:00:41,840
an experience like this even if it's

19
00:00:46,069 --> 00:00:42,320
just for

20
00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:46,079
a split second it just you don't look at

21
00:00:49,670 --> 00:00:47,520
things the same way ever again

22
00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:49,680
and there's all and i'm you know now

23
00:00:53,350 --> 00:00:51,120
years later i've just

24
00:00:54,950 --> 00:00:53,360
encountered teachers and teachings

25
00:00:56,869 --> 00:00:54,960
talking about this

26
00:00:59,110 --> 00:00:56,879
from different angles again and again

27
00:01:00,709 --> 00:00:59,120
saying the same thing in different words

28
00:01:02,630 --> 00:01:00,719
we get lost in our head and we get

29
00:01:04,390 --> 00:01:02,640
really serious about our spiritual

30
00:01:05,670 --> 00:01:04,400
journey so this is what happened to me

31
00:01:08,070 --> 00:01:05,680
in my

32
00:01:08,950 --> 00:01:08,080
my twenties basically like after i had

33
00:01:11,429 --> 00:01:08,960
this experience

34
00:01:13,030 --> 00:01:11,439
and then i had other you know

35
00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:13,040
quote-unquote mystical things that

36
00:01:16,469 --> 00:01:14,560
happened to me or whatever little

37
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:16,479
strange experiences but you know i lived

38
00:01:19,830 --> 00:01:18,640
at i went to zen centers i lived at a

39
00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:19,840
zen center

40
00:01:23,350 --> 00:01:21,360
you know i got really into different

41
00:01:24,149 --> 00:01:23,360
self-improvement teachings all these

42
00:01:26,550 --> 00:01:24,159
things

43
00:01:28,630 --> 00:01:26,560
you know was until i was almost 30

44
00:01:33,190 --> 00:01:28,640
before i realized

45
00:01:37,510 --> 00:01:36,149
so what i would say is this you you can

46
00:01:39,030 --> 00:01:37,520
do these exercises and

47
00:01:41,030 --> 00:01:39,040
they'll make you feel better no matter

48
00:01:42,550 --> 00:01:41,040
what but when i do them

49
00:01:44,310 --> 00:01:42,560
they're what they're coming out of is

50
00:01:46,870 --> 00:01:44,320
like all right like

51
00:01:50,149 --> 00:01:46,880
now like this is let's see like god's

52
00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:51,990
so like physiological oh you'll feel

53
00:01:55,990 --> 00:01:54,560
better in manchester day better

54
00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:56,000
have fun with that it's like the law of

55
00:01:59,270 --> 00:01:57,520
attraction people how do i get a bigger

56
00:02:03,830 --> 00:01:59,280
house how do i make more money

57
00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:03,840
i don't know shut up stop thinking

58
00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:06,000
and like i love you you know shut up and

59
00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,520
stop thinking

60
00:02:11,830 --> 00:02:09,679
stick around for my interview with tim

61
00:02:13,670 --> 00:02:11,840
grimes

62
00:02:16,229 --> 00:02:13,680
welcome to skeptico where we explore

63
00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:16,239
controversial science and spirituality

64
00:02:19,830 --> 00:02:18,720
with leading researchers thinkers and

65
00:02:21,910 --> 00:02:19,840
their critics

66
00:02:24,710 --> 00:02:21,920
i'm your host alex sicaris and today we

67
00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:24,720
welcome tim grimes to skeptico

68
00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:28,319
tim is the author of a best-selling book

69
00:02:32,390 --> 00:02:29,760
it was the number one

70
00:02:34,070 --> 00:02:32,400
in its category when i first found it on

71
00:02:37,270 --> 00:02:34,080
amazon the title is

72
00:02:39,350 --> 00:02:37,280
the joy of not thinking a radical

73
00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:39,360
approach to happiness

74
00:02:43,110 --> 00:02:41,200
you know it was still number one when i

75
00:02:46,150 --> 00:02:43,120
went back and bought a copy for

76
00:02:46,790 --> 00:02:46,160
everybody in my family and sent it to

77
00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:46,800
him and i

78
00:02:53,990 --> 00:02:50,080
i honestly cannot tell you the last

79
00:02:57,750 --> 00:02:54,000
time that i did that with a book if ever

80
00:03:01,270 --> 00:02:57,760
but it's it's just short succinct

81
00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:01,280
and it's amazing and

82
00:03:05,670 --> 00:03:03,760
it's great to have you here with us tim

83
00:03:07,190 --> 00:03:05,680
thanks so much for joining me

84
00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:07,200
thank you alex and thank you for the

85
00:03:11,830 --> 00:03:08,800
kind words so nice to

86
00:03:13,670 --> 00:03:11,840
hear uh how much you

87
00:03:15,030 --> 00:03:13,680
you know appreciate the book and also

88
00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:15,040
the fact that you gave the family

89
00:03:19,190 --> 00:03:17,440
members that uh that always uh

90
00:03:21,190 --> 00:03:19,200
makes me feel good when people share

91
00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:21,200
this information because uh

92
00:03:24,149 --> 00:03:22,879
i think it's nice nice for people to

93
00:03:25,670 --> 00:03:24,159
hear it and they don't get to hear stuff

94
00:03:27,350 --> 00:03:25,680
like it that often

95
00:03:28,710 --> 00:03:27,360
yeah yeah you know as we were chatting

96
00:03:29,910 --> 00:03:28,720
about just a second ago you know it's

97
00:03:31,990 --> 00:03:29,920
like

98
00:03:33,910 --> 00:03:32,000
there's so many things i want to talk to

99
00:03:37,589 --> 00:03:33,920
you about yeah from such a

100
00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:37,599
a straightforward kind of

101
00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:40,640
intentionally simplified book

102
00:03:46,270 --> 00:03:43,840
you know and like i want to say tim

103
00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:46,280
do you realize that this is a radical

104
00:03:51,990 --> 00:03:48,000
condemnation of

105
00:03:53,670 --> 00:03:52,000
scientism and uh you know this

106
00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:53,680
consciousness is an illusion and you're

107
00:03:57,030 --> 00:03:55,280
nothing more than a biological robot in

108
00:04:00,630 --> 00:03:57,040
a meaningless universe

109
00:04:03,670 --> 00:04:00,640
but that is not what the book

110
00:04:07,509 --> 00:04:03,680
is about the book starts out

111
00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:07,519
beautifully as a a teenage tim

112
00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:10,720
sitting on a beach and experiencing

113
00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:13,040
something that i think a lot of us

114
00:04:17,909 --> 00:04:15,280
experience not only as teenagers

115
00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:17,919
but throughout our life when

116
00:04:20,789 --> 00:04:19,840
particularly you know what's interesting

117
00:04:24,070 --> 00:04:20,799
i'd like to hear

118
00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:24,080
that that what you slip into that point

119
00:04:29,749 --> 00:04:27,520
of this very kind of

120
00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:29,759
troubling feeling oppressive feeling

121
00:04:33,430 --> 00:04:30,560
that you're in

122
00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:33,440
is that it's triggered by a zen kind of

123
00:04:36,070 --> 00:04:34,720
experience which is supposed to be the

124
00:04:37,830 --> 00:04:36,080
opposite of that so

125
00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:37,840
i've kind of laid a lot on the table

126
00:04:43,510 --> 00:04:40,240
tell us a little bit about who you are

127
00:04:44,629 --> 00:04:43,520
uh and then the i love the the origin of

128
00:04:49,110 --> 00:04:44,639
this book that

129
00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:49,120
the way you open it up sure um

130
00:04:53,270 --> 00:04:52,560
so first of all i'm a i'm primarily a

131
00:04:57,430 --> 00:04:53,280
writer

132
00:05:01,749 --> 00:04:57,440
and an editor of uh kind of alternative

133
00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:01,759
mind body material

134
00:05:06,150 --> 00:05:04,560
i've always been interested in the

135
00:05:09,749 --> 00:05:06,160
mind-body relationship

136
00:05:10,550 --> 00:05:09,759
and i usually go about explaining and

137
00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:10,560
exploring it

138
00:05:14,230 --> 00:05:13,360
in in kind of a different fashion than

139
00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:14,240
most people do

140
00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:16,880
especially people in um kind of like the

141
00:05:22,790 --> 00:05:18,880
stress management or

142
00:05:25,029 --> 00:05:22,800
counseling field and that's why i call

143
00:05:26,310 --> 00:05:25,039
i called myself initially a radical

144
00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:26,320
counselor because i was basically

145
00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:27,520
counseling people

146
00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:31,360
on stuff that they probably hadn't

147
00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:32,880
heard about in the way i was going to

148
00:05:37,270 --> 00:05:35,680
describe it to them

149
00:05:38,870 --> 00:05:37,280
and so i basically yeah i've just always

150
00:05:40,150 --> 00:05:38,880
been interested in how our consciousness

151
00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:40,160
works and how our consciousness

152
00:05:46,469 --> 00:05:43,199
fools us and um how we can

153
00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:46,479
transcend our rational mind

154
00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:50,160
um in in different ways that we're not

155
00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:52,320
ever really taught in school or in

156
00:05:56,550 --> 00:05:53,520
traditional

157
00:05:58,870 --> 00:05:56,560
um you know backgrounds

158
00:06:00,870 --> 00:05:58,880
so that's a little bit about who i am

159
00:06:02,629 --> 00:06:00,880
and i you know i still coach people

160
00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:02,639
on this stuff and like i said i write

161
00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:04,000
about it a lot

162
00:06:08,150 --> 00:06:06,400
um now getting back to how this

163
00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:08,160
particular guide

164
00:06:14,550 --> 00:06:11,520
um begins the joy of not thinking it's

165
00:06:17,909 --> 00:06:14,560
it's describing um an experience i had

166
00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:17,919
on a beach when i was on vacation with

167
00:06:22,790 --> 00:06:19,120
my family

168
00:06:25,590 --> 00:06:22,800
when i was 16 years old and

169
00:06:26,629 --> 00:06:25,600
i was at that age like a lot of

170
00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:26,639
teenagers

171
00:06:33,749 --> 00:06:30,400
very inquisitive and curious

172
00:06:37,110 --> 00:06:33,759
about you know what it all meant

173
00:06:39,830 --> 00:06:37,120
and i was fortunate enough to

174
00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:39,840
be exposed to some really good zen books

175
00:06:43,110 --> 00:06:41,360
and zen material

176
00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:43,120
at a young age and kind of just found

177
00:06:53,909 --> 00:06:50,870
and so what preceded

178
00:06:54,629 --> 00:06:53,919
this kind of meltdown on the beach that

179
00:06:58,230 --> 00:06:54,639
i had

180
00:07:01,110 --> 00:06:58,240
um was i was reading this famous

181
00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:01,120
zen book in english i think we usually

182
00:07:06,629 --> 00:07:03,440
call it the transmission of light

183
00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:06,639
um just old zen stories about different

184
00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:08,400
quote-unquote masters and their

185
00:07:13,589 --> 00:07:10,960
enlightenment experiences

186
00:07:15,430 --> 00:07:13,599
and um it seemingly triggered something

187
00:07:17,350 --> 00:07:15,440
in me and i became i had been

188
00:07:19,110 --> 00:07:17,360
in you know many weird situations

189
00:07:19,670 --> 00:07:19,120
psychologically leading up to this

190
00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:19,680
because i was

191
00:07:23,749 --> 00:07:22,319
i was seeking something and looking for

192
00:07:26,870 --> 00:07:23,759
answers and i put myself

193
00:07:29,430 --> 00:07:26,880
out there to find them um but

194
00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:29,440
reading the zen book not being on any

195
00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:31,520
drugs or anything at the time just

196
00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:35,280
naturally this fear

197
00:07:39,110 --> 00:07:38,000
was provoked by by reading the contents

198
00:07:41,270 --> 00:07:39,120
of this book

199
00:07:42,950 --> 00:07:41,280
and i couldn't get rid of that fear no

200
00:07:45,749 --> 00:07:42,960
matter what i did

201
00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:45,759
and um it was like getting sucked down a

202
00:07:48,469 --> 00:07:46,720
black hole

203
00:07:49,990 --> 00:07:48,479
and i was just totally scared and

204
00:07:51,909 --> 00:07:50,000
terrified again i described

205
00:07:53,749 --> 00:07:51,919
at the beginning of this book very

206
00:07:55,270 --> 00:07:53,759
briefly um

207
00:07:57,189 --> 00:07:55,280
but it was an overwhelming experience

208
00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:57,199
alex like like you said i think a lot of

209
00:07:59,909 --> 00:07:58,000
us have those

210
00:08:01,189 --> 00:07:59,919
kind of experiences and then what

211
00:08:03,029 --> 00:08:01,199
happened is

212
00:08:05,189 --> 00:08:03,039
uh basically i don't know what happened

213
00:08:09,029 --> 00:08:05,199
you know the bottom fell out

214
00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:11,749
it's just totally inexplicable and

215
00:08:15,749 --> 00:08:12,800
changed my life

216
00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:15,759
um you know that was almost a quarter

217
00:08:19,430 --> 00:08:17,440
century ago totally changed my life

218
00:08:21,749 --> 00:08:19,440
when that happened do you describe it

219
00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:21,759
almost like some kind of uh

220
00:08:26,230 --> 00:08:24,160
kundalini experience or or kind of this

221
00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:26,240
non-duality experience for you

222
00:08:30,469 --> 00:08:28,560
zen they call it satori usually you know

223
00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:30,479
what i mean the satori experience

224
00:08:34,709 --> 00:08:32,320
and you know in retrospect it's it's

225
00:08:35,430 --> 00:08:34,719
easy to say well i was reading about all

226
00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:35,440
these

227
00:08:39,269 --> 00:08:37,760
satori type experiences where it's like

228
00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:39,279
they go through all these mental

229
00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:41,039
hardships and then the bottom basically

230
00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:43,039
falls out so in a way it was almost like

231
00:08:47,509 --> 00:08:44,080
well yeah

232
00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:47,519
you know that's what happened like i was

233
00:08:50,550 --> 00:08:48,800
you know i would say these days i

234
00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:50,560
manifested that in some way except

235
00:08:53,750 --> 00:08:52,320
honestly i don't really i don't believe

236
00:08:53,990 --> 00:08:53,760
that because whenever something like

237
00:08:57,030 --> 00:08:54,000
this

238
00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:57,040
happens to us um

239
00:09:00,630 --> 00:08:59,120
it's just way too far out there and

240
00:09:01,990 --> 00:09:00,640
people aren't comfortable talking about

241
00:09:02,790 --> 00:09:02,000
it that's what it comes down to you know

242
00:09:05,269 --> 00:09:02,800
what it

243
00:09:06,829 --> 00:09:05,279
it triggered in me a memory that i had

244
00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:06,839
long long since

245
00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:10,240
forgotten about the same age

246
00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:13,600
i'm reading just kind of obscure soren

247
00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:14,800
kierkenguard

248
00:09:18,710 --> 00:09:17,600
that's fair and trembling unto you yeah

249
00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:18,720
and

250
00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:20,800
i freaked i don't even know why i

251
00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:22,000
freaked i couldn't possibly

252
00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:23,760
understand that book at that age i don't

253
00:09:28,389 --> 00:09:25,920
want to like front like i was some

254
00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:28,399
intellectual or something it was way

255
00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:29,360
past me

256
00:09:34,710 --> 00:09:32,800
but it's the path of the seeker to

257
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:34,720
open doors that you don't really know

258
00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:36,000
what to do i wish

259
00:09:39,269 --> 00:09:38,080
i would have had or maybe not because

260
00:09:41,030 --> 00:09:39,279
that's the way it is

261
00:09:43,269 --> 00:09:41,040
but you know the experience that you had

262
00:09:45,670 --> 00:09:43,279
that followed that but

263
00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:45,680
i don't want to take people too far off

264
00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:46,480
the trail

265
00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:48,560
because this beautiful little book that

266
00:09:51,829 --> 00:09:49,600
you've written

267
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:51,839
is a radical i don't want to say radical

268
00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:52,720
departure

269
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:54,880
but you've you've put it together in a

270
00:09:59,829 --> 00:09:57,440
way that really is different from what

271
00:10:01,509 --> 00:09:59,839
people would expect to hear from someone

272
00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:01,519
who had that kind of experience that you

273
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:03,120
just talked to

274
00:10:06,389 --> 00:10:05,279
it's very straightforward i want you to

275
00:10:07,910 --> 00:10:06,399
talk about the title

276
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:07,920
because i think the title is quite

277
00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:09,920
profound and when i tell people

278
00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:12,480
uh i want you to respond to this when i

279
00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:13,360
tell people

280
00:10:16,829 --> 00:10:15,600
hey i just read this amazing book the

281
00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:16,839
joy of not

282
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:20,160
thinking there's this really strange

283
00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:22,399
look on their face that does relate to

284
00:10:25,350 --> 00:10:23,200
kind of the

285
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,360
consciousness is an illusion scientific

286
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:26,959
materialism thing

287
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:28,800
where they're not even sure what that

288
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:30,480
would mean

289
00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:33,760
to be not thinking and i get that again

290
00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:35,200
from my personal experience whenever i

291
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:37,120
got into yoga and the first time that i

292
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:39,200
did yoga i did it with this woman on tv

293
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:39,760
you know

294
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:42,160
the tv yoga and at the end she goes okay

295
00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:44,000
now quiet your mind

296
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:48,240
and tim for a split second is all

297
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:52,720
my mind was quiet but it was a radical

298
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:55,279
event for me because i never knew there

299
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:57,279
was anything

300
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:00,880
to me if that little chatter box

301
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:04,000
wasn't going constantly and i think

302
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:04,880
you've captured

303
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:06,800
that moment that i experienced

304
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:08,560
beautifully and in the title of the book

305
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:08,880
i

306
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:13,040
but when you tell people a joy of not

307
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,680
thinking

308
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:15,279
isn't there this certain i'm sure

309
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:17,120
there's this fear like what would that

310
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:18,399
even mean to be not

311
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:21,519
thinking yeah

312
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:25,200
i i love that um what you just said alex

313
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,120
uh yeah people are totally uncomfortable

314
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:30,800
with it

315
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,800
it's just i've noticed my whole life

316
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:36,399
my whole adult life i should say because

317
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:37,839
that experience happened when i was

318
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:42,079
16. it's hard to bring it up

319
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:43,440
you know i used to when i was younger

320
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,720
like in college and stuff i was like oh

321
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:46,240
people kind of get this you know

322
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:48,000
you're naive in the sense that you think

323
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:49,600
people are into things you know and then

324
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:50,720
you get older you realize people aren't

325
00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:52,079
into anything

326
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:55,200
um so i used to talk much more openly

327
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:55,680
about

328
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:02,470
the truth matters not most people aren't

329
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:03,920
interested because they have no

330
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,959
sense that what they are is not what

331
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:08,480
they are that there's something bigger

332
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,240
going on like you said that

333
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:12,800
split second when you're watching the

334
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:13,680
yoga video

335
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,720
and your mind really quiets again

336
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:18,720
it's like the bottom falls out and you

337
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:19,920
realize you are not

338
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,720
what you think you are and that's that's

339
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,480
all this guide is about that's all

340
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:26,399
honestly like

341
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:30,000
over the years you know um the stuff i

342
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,519
talk to people about and

343
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:33,440
coach people on it's it's changed a

344
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,120
little bit a lot of the

345
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:37,120
you know the theory and the approach but

346
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,880
underneath it all it's always the same

347
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:40,160
it's been the same in my life since i

348
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:41,440
was 16 years old

349
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:44,399
it's don't freaking think stop thinking

350
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:44,800
stop

351
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,240
all i have to share

352
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,680
really i mean i can talk about some

353
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,360
other stuff we can get into

354
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:53,040
intellectual minister blah blah and a

355
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:54,639
lot of it's very interesting but at the

356
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:55,519
end

357
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,320
of the day i don't really care um the

358
00:13:03,030 --> 00:12:59,600
the quote at the beginning

359
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,040
of of the guide is um

360
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:05,360
it's it's a the quote is just i'm a

361
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:07,040
mystic and i believe in nothing

362
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:08,639
um there's something along those lines

363
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:09,839
it's the quote at the opening of that

364
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,320
book

365
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,760
and that's the truth i'm a mystic and i

366
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:13,440
believe in nothing because when you have

367
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:14,880
an experience like this even if it's

368
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:15,360
just for

369
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:19,120
a split second it just you don't look at

370
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,720
things the same way ever again and

371
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:22,320
there's all and i'm you know

372
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,200
now years later i've just encountered

373
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:27,040
teachers and teachings talking about

374
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:28,000
this

375
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,920
from different angles again and again

376
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,519
saying the same thing in different words

377
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,639
you know and

378
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:35,120
this guide is hopefully just bringing

379
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:36,800
all those different angles together in

380
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:37,760
very plain

381
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:40,720
language as you said because i try to be

382
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:42,000
very direct and plain

383
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,839
in how i describe this but it's very

384
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,600
difficult for people to

385
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:47,120
understand unless they're really

386
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,800
invested in being

387
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:50,880
open with themselves and genuinely

388
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:52,880
curious about what they

389
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,639
are and more importantly what they are

390
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:55,920
not

391
00:14:02,189 --> 00:13:59,279
you know um it's beautifully written

392
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:02,199
it is beautifully written and i the

393
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:04,480
simplicity of it

394
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:08,480
the kind of redundancy

395
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:11,680
of it is is beautiful because with a

396
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:13,120
couple of words

397
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,399
you talk about what not thinking

398
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,199
would even mean and then you're playful

399
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:21,199
in kind of putting it down and putting

400
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,079
down

401
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:24,079
that little monkey mind that we carry

402
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:25,839
all around but you're not like

403
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:28,720
denigrating it you're engaged i mean

404
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,920
this is

405
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:32,079
all the things that that anyone has been

406
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:33,120
on the spiritual path

407
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,279
understands you know there is no past

408
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:37,040
there is no future there's only now and

409
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:38,320
what are you doing right now

410
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:39,920
but you know the other thing i was going

411
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:41,760
to uh share

412
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:44,720
that that i and i think i i got this

413
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:46,880
from the book if not directly

414
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:49,760
in the spirit of it is again the book

415
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:51,519
has been so profound for me and sharing

416
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:52,959
it with other people

417
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,279
has been a real joy and when i get that

418
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:57,360
look on someone's face like they're like

419
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:00,639
whoa you know what would that even mean

420
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,279
not thinking i go okay so you're not

421
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:04,720
down with the idea that there could be

422
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:06,320
no thinking i get that

423
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,560
but what about if there was no thinking

424
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:10,000
for the next five minutes

425
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:13,120
just said do you need to think you don't

426
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:14,720
need to think for the next five minutes

427
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:15,600
right and you could

428
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:18,800
live with that and then you see the fear

429
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,959
arise again because there's no way to

430
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:22,800
wiggle out of that you know with the

431
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:24,240
program that we have where program

432
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,839
didn't think well that's impossible this

433
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:27,360
tim guy's nuts you know

434
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,959
but when you say do you really need to

435
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:30,480
think for the next five minutes and it's

436
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,199
like

437
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,240
a beautiful do you have any any

438
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:36,399
any thoughts or stories on what it's

439
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,360
like for

440
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:40,079
people where the light bulb goes off

441
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:41,600
that

442
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,279
there's something to this not thinking

443
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,360
yeah i mean i have a lot of stories

444
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:50,000
because um

445
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:51,680
like i said i've been trying to talk to

446
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:53,040
people about this for a while and

447
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:54,639
eventually you figure out how to talk to

448
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,240
people about it in a more

449
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:58,079
palatable way for them more of a way

450
00:16:03,030 --> 00:15:59,920
where they're they're able to actually

451
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:03,040
accept it and digest it um so when i was

452
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:04,240
in college it was hard for me to

453
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:04,800
describe

454
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,040
you know if you know if someone was like

455
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,800
high on drugs or something like that or

456
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:10,720
like you were blasting loud music and

457
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,639
explaining it to them maybe they would

458
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:15,279
kind of get the picture a little bit

459
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:18,480
um but then you know i made a whole

460
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:19,920
video series and that's what the first

461
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:20,240
part

462
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:23,360
is about is is just

463
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:25,759
not you know stopping being serious for

464
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:26,880
just a couple minutes

465
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:30,720
by basically being playful um

466
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:33,519
and i've done i've been you know i've

467
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:35,199
done a lot of work with people now

468
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:37,040
just showing them how they can be

469
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:38,800
playful for a minute or two

470
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:41,920
and profoundly shut their mind up you

471
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:42,800
know

472
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:44,079
and they're still physiologically

473
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:45,920
responding to stuff they're still there

474
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:46,240
so

475
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,360
it's not like they're really not

476
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:49,199
thinking at all i don't want to get into

477
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:50,160
like

478
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,839
technicality or thinking not thinking

479
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:53,279
whatever the point is your rational

480
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:54,800
thinking has gone out the window for a

481
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:56,320
minute or two if you become

482
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:59,199
playful um and so that's what i describe

483
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,000
in the book i

484
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:03,040
i hope pretty thoroughly um but if it's

485
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,160
not thorough enough

486
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,319
you know you can go to stop being

487
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:08,640
serious.com and there's videos

488
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:10,240
there's three hours of videos of me not

489
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,919
being serious showing you how to be

490
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:13,360
playful for a minute or two

491
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:16,000
and if if you do that there's very few

492
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,959
guarantees

493
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,400
in the spiritual field as far as i'm

494
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:20,720
concerned but i feel very confident

495
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,720
if uh you know if you're playful for a

496
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:24,319
few minutes 100

497
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,039
playful that your thinking is gonna is

498
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,120
gonna significantly

499
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,919
lessen um and you're gonna be wondering

500
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:34,080
oh my gosh this is so obvious why don't

501
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:34,559
i

502
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:43,440
you know you got to get over the

503
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,679
embarrassment of it but i wanted to try

504
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,039
it because

505
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:50,240
it's totally risk-free

506
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:52,799
in trying it you know it's free free

507
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,919
it's risk-free

508
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:55,520
you understand that you've done it a

509
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,799
million times so you're not going to

510
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:58,640
harm yourself or anything like that

511
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,640
but i want to draw attention to if we

512
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:02,480
can get a little bit

513
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,720
intellectual which is kind of a

514
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:08,640
contradiction in way for the term but

515
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:10,799
not really because you're built on

516
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:13,679
some very very deep thinking that has

517
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:14,000
been

518
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:16,080
going on for thousands of years you've

519
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:17,120
just

520
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:20,000
put it together in a way that is fresh

521
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:21,200
and new and

522
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:25,280
really interesting for our western

523
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:28,960
instagram kind of sensibility

524
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:32,480
but i want to talk about the the bridge

525
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:33,120
you make

526
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:36,160
between not thinking in seriousness and

527
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,840
not being serious

528
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:40,080
because you just talked about it there

529
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:41,120
but in the book

530
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,600
you very subtly make this transition of

531
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:48,240
okay you might not be totally

532
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,679
comfortable with the idea of not

533
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:52,400
thinking but you're still reading so i

534
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,919
bet you're intrigued with

535
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:56,400
it how about we approach it from this

536
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,679
angle of

537
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:59,760
what if you were just kind of not quite

538
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,039
as serious

539
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,760
you know so do you want to talk about

540
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,360
how you see

541
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,760
the serious thing playing into this

542
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:09,360
because again we were chatted just for a

543
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:10,640
few seconds before

544
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:13,360
and you said which i totally get without

545
00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:14,640
even you saying it that

546
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:17,120
you can tend to be pretty serious i can

547
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:18,480
tend to be pretty serious

548
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:21,520
so it's almost like you're is showing

549
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:23,200
other people how you got out of your

550
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,080
head by being a little bit less serious

551
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:29,280
yeah i mean that's exactly what has

552
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:30,960
happened in my life is i'm

553
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,440
a pretty serious dude and like i i think

554
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:35,280
you know you got to go with the western

555
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,880
canon and be intellectual in a lot of

556
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:38,640
ways because you can you can learn a lot

557
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:41,120
about yourself by doing that

558
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,039
and uh the issue that

559
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,120
most people have on in this on the

560
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:49,679
spiritual path as people call it in uh

561
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:52,240
in in you know the modern world at least

562
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:52,880
you know

563
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,320
in the western world is that we get lost

564
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:58,080
in our head and we get really serious

565
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:58,480
about

566
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,160
our spiritual journey so this is what

567
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:02,159
happened to me in my

568
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:04,799
my 20s basically like after i had this

569
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,799
experience and then i had

570
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:09,120
other you know quote unquote mystical

571
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:10,640
things that happened to me or whatever

572
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,039
little

573
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:13,039
strange experiences but you know i lived

574
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:15,200
at i went to zen centers i lived at a

575
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,400
zen center

576
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,400
um you know i got really into different

577
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,400
self-improvement teachings all these

578
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:22,159
things

579
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:25,840
and um it took about

580
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:28,240
you know was until i was almost 30

581
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:31,200
before i realized

582
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:34,559
i'm so full of [\h__\h]

583
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:36,320
you know and i was don't get me wrong i

584
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:38,000
always have been a playful person too

585
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,080
like i'm a serious dude but i'm also

586
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:42,240
very i've always been playful so i

587
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:44,640
always knew that that like

588
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:47,600
that playfulness made me feel better you

589
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:49,200
know or that just drive me in the car

590
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:51,039
listening to loud music i liked loudly

591
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:52,880
made me feel better you know or just

592
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:53,200
like

593
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:56,159
jumping up and down made me feel better

594
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,559
like

595
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,480
for no reason and just kind of waving

596
00:21:03,110 --> 00:20:59,840
your arms around just

597
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,120
being really yeah exactly but it wasn't

598
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:05,520
until i became i would say thoroughly

599
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:06,640
disillusioned

600
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:10,159
with the spiritual uh culture i guess

601
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:10,640
you should

602
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:14,000
like i would call it of of you know

603
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,760
the western world like or at least the

604
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:17,120
united states

605
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:20,400
that i was like you know what this

606
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:22,159
it's really i'm just being too serious

607
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:23,440
about it and

608
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:27,039
what preceded that uh realization was

609
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,480
um i got really into byron katie i don't

610
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:32,159
know if you know who she is um but you

611
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:32,480
know

612
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,600
she's she's a great spiritual teacher oh

613
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:37,280
just a wonderful teacher and she's very

614
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:38,320
big now

615
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,320
um and she's wonderful uh but i went to

616
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:44,559
you know several workshops with her and

617
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,480
i went to this week-long thing

618
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:49,120
and leading up to it i was like you know

619
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:50,320
i want to get involved in her

620
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,120
organization

621
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,679
and and learn from her and i went to

622
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:56,000
this week-long workshop with her

623
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:57,679
and it was awesome it was amazing and

624
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:59,440
she's just amazing she's the best

625
00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:00,960
spiritual teacher i don't like using

626
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,400
that word but she was the she's the best

627
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:04,240
spirits teacher i've ever met

628
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:08,880
um but at the end of it i was like

629
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,799
i i don't want to deal with any of these

630
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:12,080
[\h__\h] people ever again

631
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:13,760
i hope it's okay i use the f word there

632
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,520
but uh it was

633
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,360
i realized it was like this is total

634
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:19,440
horseshit like this whole organizational

635
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:20,159
thing

636
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:23,520
and then um the sage on the stage

637
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:26,559
thing is sage on the stage yeah you know

638
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:29,039
it's good they have amazing information

639
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:31,039
to offer but there's a cult around these

640
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:32,400
people even if they don't intend

641
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,039
to be a cult around them you know um

642
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:38,799
and so yeah i was like you know what so

643
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:40,720
much is that of this maybe all of it is

644
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:41,600
just me being over

645
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,559
overly serious about it and if i shut

646
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:46,080
that off even for just a few minutes a

647
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:47,919
day i'll feel a lot better and i really

648
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:49,120
got into that

649
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:51,919
and uh most people don't want to hear it

650
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,880
they still want me

651
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:54,159
you know people when they talk to me

652
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,360
they don't want to talk about this stuff

653
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:57,600
alex they want to talk about

654
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:59,039
you know how they can get stuff using

655
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:00,400
the law of attraction which

656
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:02,720
unfortunately i know all about

657
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:04,480
but it's not really what i'm interested

658
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:05,760
in you know

659
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,880
i mean i'm interested in the

660
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:08,640
consciousness dynamics of that that the

661
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,360
inner work

662
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:11,120
that is involved in quote unquote

663
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:12,400
manifesting things that

664
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:14,000
interests me and that's what i talk

665
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:15,440
about the the last

666
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:18,320
part of the joy of not thinking but

667
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:19,280
people who want

668
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:22,799
um a bigger house or more money uh

669
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:24,640
if they're coming to me for advice they

670
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,470
you know they're gonna they're gonna get

671
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,559
lit up because i what i have to really

672
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,679
say is

673
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,200
i don't know you know what i mean like

674
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:35,360
what i know is is stop being as serious

675
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:36,640
and don't think as much

676
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,559
so you know one other um

677
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:42,159
and i wish i would have written down the

678
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,600
reference but i didn't know that we were

679
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:44,799
going there

680
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:47,600
i didn't follow the reference to byron

681
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:49,520
katie but i followed a couple other ones

682
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:51,279
that i found really interesting in the

683
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,000
book

684
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:54,720
that i i just found interesting i think

685
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:56,640
what you're doing i've read a ton

686
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:58,799
of spiritual books i've been a spiritual

687
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:00,400
journeyer for

688
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:04,960
a lot of years and i so appreciate

689
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,760
all the threads that i see in your work

690
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:09,360
but there were a couple of new ones that

691
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:11,279
were interesting to me

692
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:15,200
who is the guy who did the thing with

693
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:16,400
the bush

694
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:24,480
god i might have that the title of that

695
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,600
book wrong but it's something along

696
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:27,120
those lines you'll you'll find it if you

697
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,240
google it

698
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,480
um but he that's just a that quote was

699
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:32,400
just from an ant that's like an anthropo

700
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,200
like a modern anthropology book um but

701
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:38,400
he made the connection

702
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,799
that um that we're you know we're all

703
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:42,880
making the obvious connection really

704
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:43,520
that like

705
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:45,760
you know in most cultures historic like

706
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,240
you know before history

707
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:49,760
you know if things weren't going right

708
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,520
you just danced around some and you know

709
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,799
what i mean you didn't you didn't be

710
00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:54,400
like oh let's think about this some more

711
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,000
and you know get more and more stressed

712
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,919
out about it you know it's like no you

713
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:59,440
they think we're idiots in a lot of

714
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,080
these uh indigenous you know

715
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,279
aboriginal uh cultures you know the

716
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:07,200
quote-unquote primitive cultures right

717
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:08,559
where they

718
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:11,200
often know much more than we do um you

719
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:11,600
know

720
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:13,679
so so that was beautiful and i thought

721
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,960
that that whole connection between

722
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:18,640
because i think we can you know we can

723
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,320
overdo that you know and the

724
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,320
quote-unquote noble savage and you know

725
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:24,559
kind of things to those people

726
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:26,640
that they don't deserve but then

727
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:27,679
discount

728
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:29,360
some of the wisdom that they have that

729
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:30,799
they do deserve and

730
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,400
i love people who come along and take a

731
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,720
fresh look and just add it to the pile

732
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,559
but the other thing i got about this

733
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,039
thing that i thought really related to

734
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,200
your work in kind of an interesting way

735
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:44,000
so yeah there's this thing of yeah just

736
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:45,760
dance around and shake a little bit and

737
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:47,520
do some music you know and it all feels

738
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:48,080
better

739
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,080
but the other thing they have a major

740
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:52,080
the bushmen have a major kind of

741
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:55,760
slow your role thing so if you come home

742
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:56,720
with

743
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:59,440
the big kill what you're going to

744
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:00,159
encounter

745
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:02,480
is everyone sitting around going yeah

746
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:04,960
but man that gazelle don't look so good

747
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:05,679
man

748
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:09,360
just all this kind of really really

749
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:13,039
sarcasm joking around in order for you

750
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:14,640
to bring your ego down

751
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,159
and i thought wow that is like so genius

752
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,919
from all the ways that we're talking

753
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:20,960
about it here

754
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:24,480
brilliant yeah that's just that at all

755
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,960
no i mean that's just brilliant exactly

756
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:28,080
i mean like again

757
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:31,360
it's such like it's uncommon common

758
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:32,720
sense right yeah it's like

759
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:36,400
it's like that's how you keep everybody

760
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:38,000
in line you know that's how you

761
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,919
become harmonious with other people you

762
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,240
know and like with my

763
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:44,080
my good friends i've known for years

764
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:45,679
there's this kind of like

765
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:48,080
immediate irreverence where no one ever

766
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,760
you always are backing each other up

767
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:51,360
don't get me wrong you're edifying each

768
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:52,000
other in many

769
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,440
ways but if any you never i never allow

770
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:58,000
my friends to have get a big head or for

771
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:59,520
them to allow me to get a big head and

772
00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:00,799
i'm only talking about people i'm very

773
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,600
close to and

774
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,200
very informal with you know what i'm

775
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:05,440
saying um but

776
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:06,799
yeah i mean the idea of having a

777
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:08,480
community like that and again

778
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:11,600
when i was younger i behaved more that

779
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:12,000
way

780
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:13,520
with other people that i didn't know as

781
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:15,440
well because i thought they kind of

782
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:18,720
would get it and now i realize like holy

783
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,279
you know holy [\h__\h] i was like crazy like

784
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:23,039
in my 20s and stuff like that just how i

785
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:24,399
behaved like

786
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,320
i was coming from a genuine place so

787
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,559
like i don't regret it but like

788
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:30,799
people probably i mean people had no

789
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:31,840
idea what the hell i was

790
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:33,520
doing probably most of the time you know

791
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,720
what i mean people still don't know what

792
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,039
i'm doing but i'm more presentable now

793
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,840
and how i go about it so yeah yeah yeah

794
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:41,039
that's awesome

795
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:45,520
hey so tim um tell us more about

796
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:48,720
the exercises the the not

797
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,520
the playfulness exercises and you know

798
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:53,200
you kind of dropped a little hint there

799
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:54,960
that i thought

800
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:57,440
again as we bounce back between the kind

801
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,039
of intellectual and daryl

802
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:01,679
say you know neuroscience of this to the

803
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,039
just kind of practical

804
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:05,679
fun part of it and that's that

805
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:06,640
interrupting

806
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:10,159
a pattern that we have in the way we're

807
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:11,679
organizing our consciousness

808
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:15,120
experience psychologists have studied

809
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,000
that and say wow

810
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,440
that's can be very efficacious for

811
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:21,840
removing depression and doing all these

812
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:22,720
other things

813
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,000
and you seem to have put that together

814
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,200
in this playing kind of

815
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:31,679
therapy so without being too serious

816
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:32,960
about it but

817
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:35,279
maybe go into that a little bit more of

818
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,880
it and you do have some videos that are

819
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,159
just you know you just put yourself out

820
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,000
there i'm playing you know kind of like

821
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:42,000
speak more of that if you would sure

822
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:43,679
yeah i mean

823
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:45,840
it's a great idea if you can do it and

824
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:47,679
if you get comfortable doing it and as

825
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:49,120
you said alex it takes some practice

826
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:50,240
just because we're not

827
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:53,520
used to being playful even if we're in a

828
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:53,919
room

829
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,760
alone and we know nobody's watching

830
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,360
we're still not comfortable just being

831
00:29:02,630 --> 00:28:59,039
ourselves

832
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:02,640
but it can be really helpful to do

833
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,919
whatever you want physically um to kind

834
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,760
of get you out of your head and that

835
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:09,840
some really basic examples are like

836
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:11,440
jumping up and down

837
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:14,320
um making funny faces in the mirror like

838
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,640
just

839
00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:16,960
you know moving your arms all about you

840
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,960
know barking like a dog or making animal

841
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:21,200
sounds and hopping up and down

842
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:25,360
um really stupid stupid things absurd

843
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:27,520
things you know if you do goofy stuff

844
00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:28,640
like that

845
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,440
um for just a minute or two and you know

846
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:33,440
if you do it each day if

847
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:35,679
you'll notice it like you just notice it

848
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:37,360
when you do it if you get into it that

849
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:37,600
it

850
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,159
might even be better

851
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,399
um it's immediate oh i mean yeah it's

852
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:45,840
immediate exactly and

853
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:48,559
again i hate using words like immediate

854
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:50,159
or guarant you know guaranteed to work

855
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,640
order

856
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:53,039
but it's just it's a it's a mind body

857
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,159
physiological

858
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:57,120
thing where if you get 100 into

859
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:58,399
physically

860
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:01,440
being playful basically um

861
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:03,039
you'll feel better i'm not saying you'll

862
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:04,559
feel

863
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:10,960
significantly better than you did a few

864
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:12,559
minutes before and that's a

865
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:15,520
that's a profound thing you know so it

866
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,000
is and

867
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:18,159
and particularly when it's married to

868
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:19,760
the first part of the book because again

869
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:20,559
to maybe

870
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:24,159
risk over analyzing this stuff but

871
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,600
some of the people who do the

872
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:28,080
playfulness stuff or talk about

873
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,559
managing your physiology in order to

874
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:32,320
change your mental state

875
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,520
see it as an end you know

876
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,440
rather than a means to an end where i

877
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:39,360
think you're coming at it which is to

878
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,080
say

879
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:42,480
your mystic thing i'm a mystic i'm

880
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,520
nothing you know

881
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,600
there is nothing there's only this

882
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:47,360
silence that

883
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:49,760
that from which emerges all this

884
00:30:53,909 --> 00:30:51,520
beautiful profoundness

885
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:53,919
so that's what i'm trying to get to i'm

886
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:55,039
not really

887
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:58,000
trying to get rid of these yucky

888
00:31:01,509 --> 00:30:59,039
feelings

889
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:01,519
that's just that's just kind of what

890
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:02,640
i've

891
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:05,200
added to that i need this addition by

892
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,279
subtraction of just saying you know

893
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:08,880
and you're nodding your head so so do

894
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:10,640
you want to speak to that subtle

895
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:11,279
difference

896
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:14,640
of the means to an end versus kind of an

897
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:17,360
end of itself

898
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:19,519
yeah well what did you describe those

899
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:20,559
people like what what

900
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:21,840
what terms did you use for them

901
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:24,080
physiological ex like uh

902
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:25,840
experts or something like that or my

903
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:28,000
body yeah yeah you know i mean because

904
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:30,320
people take that mind body thing and you

905
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:31,919
know exactly right

906
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:34,880
of course yeah so what i would say is

907
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:39,750
when you you can do these exercises and

908
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:41,200
they'll make you feel better no matter

909
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,320
what but when

910
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:44,159
i do them they're what they're coming

911
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:45,600
out of is like

912
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:48,080
all right like now like this is let's

913
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:54,230
so like physiological oh you'll feel

914
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,720
better in manchester they better

915
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:58,240
have fun with that it's like the law of

916
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:59,679
attraction people how do i get a bigger

917
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,080
house

918
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:03,440
how do i make more money i don't know

919
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:06,799
shut up stop thinking and like i love

920
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,120
you

921
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,320
know that's that's

922
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,880
that's we're talking about god you know

923
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:14,480
that's what so that's where

924
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:17,760
i've always come from with this stuff

925
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,679
because of this experience on the beach

926
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:21,840
and my background that's my best

927
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:23,600
my background for not being serious is

928
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:25,279
the beach experience it's not like

929
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:26,960
how can i become a more productive

930
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,960
person and feel better

931
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:31,200
i mean emotions are just there and it's

932
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:32,159
when we have

933
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:33,760
negative emotions it can be very

934
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:35,679
difficult there's no need to deny that

935
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:38,480
and doing this stuff being playful

936
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:39,919
managing your physiology

937
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,760
will help but what we are talking about

938
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:45,919
is god

939
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:49,440
so so tim i i do have to drag you into

940
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:50,240
the

941
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:56,799
waited in way way too long but i've

942
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:57,919
always had that

943
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:59,440
spiritual sensibility that you're

944
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:01,760
talking about but it does [\h__\h] piss

945
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:03,120
me off

946
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,840
that so much of the messaging in our

947
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:07,200
culture

948
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:11,840
is over intellectualizing this stuff

949
00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:15,039
and making it sound so true and

950
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:17,080
legitimate and just

951
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:20,480
unassailable in terms of you know you

952
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:23,760
are just your brain your brain my man

953
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:24,000
you

954
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:27,120
are there isn't consciousness that's an

955
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:30,320
illusion as neil degrasse tyson says you

956
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,640
are

957
00:33:34,389 --> 00:33:32,960
meaningless in a meaning because the

958
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:34,399
universe it's not that you are

959
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:35,120
meaningless

960
00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:38,799
hey you want to have some uh

961
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:41,919
social construct meaning that's fine but

962
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:45,120
the universe is meaningless so you're

963
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,080
meaningless

964
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,240
if you can't have any meaning in your

965
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,320
life if the universe is meaning

966
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:52,480
meaning meaningless you get what i'm

967
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:53,519
saying so

968
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:55,760
i i won't rail on that because i do it

969
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:57,360
way way too much

970
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:00,240
but did you you must have encountered

971
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:02,720
that experience that in in college or

972
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:03,840
whatever and

973
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:07,120
what has been your kind of brushing up

974
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:07,679
against

975
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,240
some of that materialism you are just

976
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:12,320
your brain stuff

977
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,359
well i mean i just have never fit in uh

978
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:19,599
in my adult life there's no place for so

979
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:21,359
i say at the end of the joy not thinking

980
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:22,159
like

981
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,599
i've always considered myself basically

982
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:25,839
a bum you know

983
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:29,520
like i don't i don't fit in at all and

984
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:34,079
um i always

985
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,839
i was interested in which is this

986
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,839
mind-body stuff from a

987
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,440
you know spiritual or whatever you want

988
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:41,280
to call it place

989
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:44,720
i was very i had a lot of i was genuine

990
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,159
so i had a lot of integrity about going

991
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:50,240
forward in that path if i was to pursue

992
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:50,960
it

993
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:54,720
followed

994
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:57,839
like for instance you know going to

995
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:59,680
graduate school or getting a phd about

996
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:01,119
this with what i'm talking about they

997
00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:02,000
would say i'm [\h__\h]

998
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,200
crazy and also any spiritual

999
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:07,359
organization basically including and i

1000
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:08,240
had some

1001
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:10,640
you know i met some great teachers and

1002
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,000
like i

1003
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:14,240
you know that i'm very grateful time i

1004
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:16,000
spent like at you know a zen center

1005
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,839
those people are just tremendous but

1006
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:19,760
nonetheless

1007
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,440
that setting even that what would seem

1008
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,280
to be a safe spiritual setting even that

1009
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,520
was too square for me even like a byron

1010
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,520
katy organization which is you know they

1011
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:31,440
do really good things

1012
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:35,200
it didn't it didn't jive with what

1013
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:38,880
the integrity i had for what i was into

1014
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,480
and um yeah i mean

1015
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:44,400
can i ask you this because i want you to

1016
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:45,839
kind of go on

1017
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:49,520
here um you know a lot of people talk

1018
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:50,720
about the east west

1019
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:53,839
thing and i think there's something to

1020
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:56,240
what the west has brought to this new

1021
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,359
spirituality

1022
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,800
one thing i always find offensive is

1023
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,480
when people kind of say you know you

1024
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:02,240
should really stay in your lane and i

1025
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:02,800
think

1026
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,720
studying the western tradition if that's

1027
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,400
your spiritual background

1028
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,720
i i see that totally differently and i

1029
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:10,240
see someone like you

1030
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,079
who has truly uh built upon

1031
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,480
an eastern tradition but brought a

1032
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,119
sensibility to it that is very western

1033
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,920
and i think catapults us forward in some

1034
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,520
undeniable ways that you just look and

1035
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,200
go

1036
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:27,040
the zen folks they just had a bit of a

1037
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:28,960
blind spot not putting them down or

1038
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,079
anything like that

1039
00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:32,480
but there was a bit of a blind spot that

1040
00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:33,119
kind of

1041
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:36,560
calcified in that system and

1042
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:39,440
what do you think about this marriage of

1043
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:42,079
eastern and western spirituality if you

1044
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:42,960
want to kind of

1045
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:46,079
wax philosophical a little bit i mean

1046
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,720
it's

1047
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:49,119
i don't know enough about it but my

1048
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,640
argument would be neither does anybody

1049
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:52,960
else

1050
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,280
i've just always been interested

1051
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,680
in various spiritual stuff i was not

1052
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:00,880
raised religiously

1053
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:04,240
um my dad had a good spiritual library

1054
00:37:07,829 --> 00:37:05,359
of stuff i read

1055
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,839
the dao de ching the best translation of

1056
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,960
the daotech

1057
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:10,720
the way of life by whitner binner when i

1058
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:12,000
was like 13

1059
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:13,920
14 years old that was like the book that

1060
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:16,000
catapulted me to

1061
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:18,240
whatever came after that um it's one of

1062
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:19,200
my favorite books

1063
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,079
uh so that's how that was like my

1064
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:23,920
introduction to religion and so i went

1065
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,280
to eastern track first

1066
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:27,119
from obviously a very western

1067
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,920
perspective you know being a young kid

1068
00:37:34,829 --> 00:37:32,560
um but i got i did get exposed to some

1069
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:34,839
of that eastern stuff

1070
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:38,079
and the western stuff i don't know

1071
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,880
enough about

1072
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:41,520
it's only been in the last 10 years or

1073
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:42,000
even

1074
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,640
years that i've gotten more into like

1075
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:48,480
traditional western religion in the

1076
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,560
sense of like

1077
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:52,720
the new thought movement you know like

1078
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:54,640
the mental healing movement

1079
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:57,359
um which are all very american you know

1080
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:58,000
that

1081
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:00,960
really comes out of this country um in

1082
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,440
the last 100 you know 50 years or less

1083
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:05,119
since you know emerson at the road and

1084
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:08,000
out of that that stuff's fascinating

1085
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:11,119
and they you know emerson especially was

1086
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,480
bringing like

1087
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:14,640
the hindu stuff supposedly to the to the

1088
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:18,880
west right and so i feel like a lot

1089
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:21,520
of that new thought material is still

1090
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,240
vastly

1091
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:24,000
unexplored and that's what i'm really

1092
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,839
into now and talking and

1093
00:38:29,109 --> 00:38:27,520
you know and working with people with

1094
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:29,119
that stuff because it's so unexplored

1095
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:29,520
and

1096
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:31,520
the difference maybe with what i do

1097
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:33,040
compared to other people that do that is

1098
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:35,119
that i do have this kind of

1099
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:37,599
zen background so i think that might be

1100
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,720
what you're alluding to

1101
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:41,280
it's like a marriage of kind of like new

1102
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:42,880
thought ideas

1103
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,960
which i try to look at very practically

1104
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:46,079
not about it's not about

1105
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,599
god with new thought for me it's more

1106
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:49,280
like how can you practically

1107
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,800
feel better and get better things in

1108
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:52,640
your life by feeling better

1109
00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:55,920
um so is that married to

1110
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,839
my first like exposure to spirituality

1111
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:01,520
which is more like zen

1112
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:03,520
taoism and you know a little bit of

1113
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:04,960
indian non-dual

1114
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:07,520
stuff so you know i guess specifically

1115
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:09,040
what i was kind of alluding to

1116
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,560
and i just maybe didn't make a clear

1117
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:12,240
reference

1118
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:15,920
you have an american approach

1119
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:18,400
you have a new england you know uh

1120
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:19,920
emerson i certainly have a new

1121
00:39:23,349 --> 00:39:21,359
i have a new england approach that's for

1122
00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:23,359
sure you know you said your

1123
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:25,280
your buddies you know i i just kind of

1124
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:27,280
see you know got busting each other's

1125
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,800
balls kind of thing and you know going

1126
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:30,320
to other fields they're just like

1127
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,839
what is going on here because when you

1128
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:33,839
first encounter that

1129
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,240
i think that catapults is further

1130
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:40,400
in integrating this eastern thing and i

1131
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,760
love the way you say that emerson was

1132
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:43,839
doing it you know 150 years ago and we

1133
00:39:47,750 --> 00:39:45,200
still don't appreciate it and he was

1134
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:47,760
trying to do that integration

1135
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:50,079
so let me just is this quick aside there

1136
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:51,359
i mean thoreau or i guess you always

1137
00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:53,119
will say a through i don't know

1138
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:56,320
um thoreau is emerson's great but

1139
00:40:00,630 --> 00:39:57,280
thoreau's

1140
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:00,640
i mean that guy yeah he's the

1141
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:03,920
freaking best he's the best like i mean

1142
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,359
in my opinion he's the best american

1143
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:07,599
writer you know in history and you know

1144
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:09,200
hit the rose journals if you just want

1145
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:10,720
to read like good

1146
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:14,880
or i should say great um

1147
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:17,440
totally not like just like spiritual

1148
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:18,800
writing that's coming with

1149
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,160
no he wasn't coming he wasn't staying in

1150
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,480
his lane he was just doing his thing and

1151
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:26,319
he was including all the stuff and so

1152
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:27,680
thoreau's journals i just want to give a

1153
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,720
shout out to that because people always

1154
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:30,000
talk about emerson

1155
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,839
um and i know they talk about thorough a

1156
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:34,079
lot too but just throws

1157
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,520
um a step above just about

1158
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:39,599
anybody in my book so i just thought

1159
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,640
that's awesome

1160
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:42,400
yeah it's awesome and there's so much

1161
00:40:46,309 --> 00:40:44,319
more you know

1162
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:46,319
to be done there and so much more that

1163
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:48,160
you can yes

1164
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,520
so tim tell us more about

1165
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,720
where you're going with this i

1166
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,200
understand you know you being a writer

1167
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:58,319
and uh you know there's nothing to

1168
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,599
i think it's totally cool what you're

1169
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:01,119
talking about you know people want to

1170
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:02,480
hear about

1171
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:05,680
uh i don't know what for lack of a

1172
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,720
better term you know the secret kind of

1173
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,560
philosophy and stuff like that yeah i

1174
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:12,000
use law of attraction now i didn't used

1175
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:13,520
to use that term i just feel like that's

1176
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:14,960
the term that people use so it's like

1177
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:16,319
why not use it i don't care what you

1178
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:18,319
call it you could call it blah blah blah

1179
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:19,920
as far as i'm concerned you know it's

1180
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:21,200
just like what people understand you

1181
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:22,960
know manifesting law of attraction these

1182
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:25,920
are buzzwords that uh

1183
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:27,839
people kind of get you know and then i

1184
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:29,280
start talking about it also they don't

1185
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:31,839
get it but um

1186
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:35,200
enough people do understand um

1187
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,720
those terms and yeah so continue on alex

1188
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,560
with your question though i'm sorry no

1189
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,240
i was just i was just gonna say you know

1190
00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:44,160
for people they want to check out your

1191
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:45,960
website

1192
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,400
radicalcounselor.com they can connect

1193
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:50,800
with you one-on-one for some coaching

1194
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:53,040
awesome you also have these videos that

1195
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:54,480
we were kind of talking about

1196
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:57,440
it goes to your kind of uh just some of

1197
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:58,160
the fun

1198
00:42:01,990 --> 00:42:00,560
uh this is the manifesting abundance but

1199
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,000
just some of the fun ones too

1200
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:04,240
those are at what was that website again

1201
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:06,160
yeah that used to just that link used to

1202
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:06,880
just be

1203
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:10,000
go to stop being serious.com okay

1204
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:11,680
those videos which are like those videos

1205
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:12,800
are 10 years old at this point but they

1206
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:14,240
hold up that's still pretty much

1207
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:17,520
my favorite thing i've ever done um

1208
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:19,280
yeah you can go down there to at that

1209
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:20,560
bottom of my web of the radical

1210
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:21,440
counselor webpage

1211
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:24,800
stop being serious is there um

1212
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:28,720
yeah basically

1213
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:31,680
what i plan on to be doing going forward

1214
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:32,560
um

1215
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,640
constantly changes but i i look at

1216
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:36,160
myself as someone who just likes to

1217
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,960
share

1218
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,800
information that they find interesting

1219
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:40,880
and that i find works

1220
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,160
for when i work with people whether

1221
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:47,119
um it's as simple as over email or

1222
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:49,119
whether it's you know on the phone or

1223
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,160
skyping or whatever or zooming um

1224
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:54,720
i just i like to work with people

1225
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:57,040
one-on-one because you really get to see

1226
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,160
how

1227
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:00,000
people are affected by this stuff you

1228
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:04,000
know on a real tangible basis

1229
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:07,440
and then the more that the more people i

1230
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:08,800
work with and the more stuff that i'm

1231
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,520
exposed to and that i practice myself

1232
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:12,960
i try to integrate that all into

1233
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:15,760
whatever i write next

1234
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:19,280
and uh yeah i mean i also just like to

1235
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:19,760
share

1236
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,400
classic law of attraction for lack of a

1237
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,400
better word

1238
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:26,319
books old books and stuff with people

1239
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:28,000
because a lot of that stuff

1240
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,280
as we mentioned has just been kind of

1241
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:31,520
forgotten about or neglected

1242
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:33,680
um and i do think we're beginning to see

1243
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:35,040
a renaissance

1244
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:38,960
um with some of the teachers that i love

1245
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,440
um neville goddard um emile kuwait

1246
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:45,359
i've i've edited some of their their

1247
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:47,440
works and you know they were

1248
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:49,920
teaching in the first basically the

1249
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,960
first part of the 20th century primarily

1250
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,720
and more and more people seem to be

1251
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:56,160
drawn to that stuff i've noticed on

1252
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,839
youtube there's a lot of new

1253
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:59,359
youtube channels talking about their

1254
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:01,440
stuff which is which is good

1255
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,720
as far as i'm concerned because they're

1256
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,720
master teachers so

1257
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:06,400
well that's awesome i always like when

1258
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:07,760
people

1259
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:10,880
acknowledge you know the origins of this

1260
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:12,560
stuff because i think it just

1261
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:16,319
strengthens and offers further

1262
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:19,520
you know power to what you're bringing

1263
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:22,560
because we're all standing on the

1264
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,680
shoulders of other people

1265
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,119
and mixing all these things together

1266
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:26,960
again the book that really

1267
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:30,720
got me so excited and i'm so glad and

1268
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:31,839
joyful that

1269
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:34,240
tim decided to join us today but the

1270
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:34,880
book is

1271
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,760
the joy of not thinking a radical

1272
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:39,520
approach to happiness

1273
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:42,800
our guest has been tim grimes and tim

1274
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:45,680
it's been super duper fun i wish i was

1275
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,079
there

1276
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:48,880
in boston so i could just head down and

1277
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,000
have a beer with you

1278
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:52,880
or a soda now and then and you're just a

1279
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:54,640
guy i think would

1280
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:57,520
make anybody feel better coaching or

1281
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:58,880
otherwise so uh

1282
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,319
thanks so much for being with us we'll

1283
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,400
do it someday alex we'll do it someday

1284
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:04,560
it's been a pleasure thank you so much

1285
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:06,240
thanks again to tim grimes for joining

1286
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:07,680
me today on skeptico

1287
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:11,760
the one question i'd have to tee up is

1288
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:15,359
what's your experience with not being

1289
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:17,040
quite so serious

1290
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:20,079
how has that worked for you

1291
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,400
let me know your thoughts i'd love for

1292
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:24,720
you to join me on the skeptical forum i

1293
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,480
really would i'd like to connect with

1294
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:28,079
you i'd like to know what you

1295
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:31,040
think about the show and the best place

1296
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:32,000
to do it is there

1297
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:34,000
skeptical dash form you can find it from

1298
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:35,040
the website

1299
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:37,599
i'm there i'll respond if you join me

1300
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:39,040
over there so

1301
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,960
do do that if you're interested

1302
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:44,400
i have some good shows coming up i got a

1303
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,839
bunch in the hopper and i'm going to

1304
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:46,800
start putting them out

1305
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:49,280
faster i just don't know there's so many

1306
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:51,839
great conversations and dialogues

1307
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,960
that i've been able to have and i'm

1308
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:54,640
going to get them out to you one way or

1309
00:45:58,829 --> 00:45:55,680
another

1310
00:46:00,070 --> 00:45:58,839
until next time take care and bye for